Thank you Beth. The cuts around the drain (and everywhere pretty much) are horrible I agree. OK I won't pay him until it's fixed but the question is can he even fix it? Not sure he is even capable. Once the marble is sealed is it too late to fix? Can the grout on the edges be fixed? Would he have to redo the bottom or the whole thing? He also got blue marker all over my marble that's not seen in the pix! Thanks again so thankful you commented!

Not sure about waterproof I do know the marble floor is sealed and the grout is sealed that's all I know :(

That's so sly I didn't even notice he did that to fill the gap between the floor and the wall. Good eye. He put grey grout on my wall it wasn't even the shower! Laughable. He is also coming back to caulk the sides of the shower lip and install the shower head/plate. Gasp.

danielle, it's a complete tear out. I'm sorry. as I've stated, Greenboard is not suitable for showers. no ifs, ands, or buts. You can't use it.

You hired a complete hack. You can ask for your money back but I doubt he's going to do it.

you can educate yourself and have him redo it (not fix it, because it's NOT fixable) according the Tile Standards. If he refuses, take him to small claims court.

you need to call in a qualified, licensed tile setter, (not a GC) and have him tell you exactly what is wrong. pay him for his time to write up everything, and what needs to be corrected. get an estimate. show this to your guy and see what he says.

but honestly, no way would I want this guy redoing my shower. he's an idiot.

btw, sealing marble doesn't mean anything. it just means it buys you time to wipe up anything that stains. that's all it does.

why is that moron using blue marker on marble?? it won't come off. jesus. danielle, cut your losses, sue this moron and find a real tile setter.

The grout on the subway appears to be the same medium grey (Dove grey from Tile Shop) color all around at the very least. Hard to tell from the pix. The marble floor you're right the grout looks 2 different colors!

He's just a regular contractor I assumed he was a tile guy found out later he wasn't. My BF uses him to paint and do general contracting for his business. I didn't ask enough questions I'm ultimately at fault. Oh well.

But I need to have him fix this I agree. Not sure how he's going to fix the bottom. Or anything for that matter :(

Thanks again Beth!

don't let him do anything else. show him this entire post.

again, Grout and Sealer are not waterproof! ok? marble is soft and porous. applying a sealer doesn't make it waterproof. if it did, we wouldn't need to waterproof behind the tiles, now would we?

what did he charge you to do this/ and where are you located?

when you want more advice, go here and post what you posted on this site.

https://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/

they're have site issues at the moment, so give them an hour or so and post over there on the Help forum. those guys are the best in the business and will tell you everything you need to know

He's just a regular contractor I assumed he was a tile guy found out later he wasn't. My BF uses him to paint and do general contracting for his business. I didn't ask enough questions I'm ultimately at fault. Oh well.

But I need to have him fix this I agree. Not sure how he's going to fix the bottom.

There was a green board (20 years old) behind the tile.. which it seemed he didn't replace.

it's not fixable. Let me repeat it again,, your shower is a fail. it will leak and rot your walls and studs/flooring. you either take care of it now or you have 10X the cost and issues down the road (and soon).

Show him this post and tell him the waterproofing was not done correctly. you will not be paying for it unless he rips it out, learns how to do it, and redoes it. (but there is so much to waterproofing that needs to be done correctly. taping of the seams w/the correct tape, the correct screws, cement board cut plumb/level, applied to the studs, waterproofing membrane applied, etc etc). if he's never done it, do you really want him doing it?

look danielle, you are both in over your head. he needs to admit his failure and refund your money. You need to be smart and hire the correct people to do work. I know you think you got a hell of a deal, and there's a reason you did. you either pay now for good work, or you'll pay 3 times as much later on and have to get new shower anyway.

I'm not a pro and posts like these make me scared to ever attempt bath renovations. I'm so sorry this is happening! While I don't know the ins and outs of proper waterproofing and tile laying, I did note from your photos that there may be too many different tile patterns and grout colors throughout the space (blue tile wall, bath floor, shower floor, shower walls and curb are all different) causing a less than cohesive look. Obviously, the poor workmanship and the suspected inferior waterproofing is more important than the aesthetics of the tile choices, but if you end up redoing the space, perhaps rethink your choices. Good luck in getting a resolution!

Reading all this over give me 15 minutes thank you!

here's what your shower should look like w/cement board (CBU, HardieBoard, DuraRock)

this is what's painted over it to waterproof it

should look like this. Now you can tile

Kerdi shower system (just another way of waterproofing. Kerdi is a complete system.)

If doing a cement board wall, the shower pan should have this. PVC liner (supported by surrounding wood studs.
no nails in the liner or on the curb!!

then a sloped mortar bed atop

and over the curb to finish looking like this

Now you can tile.

Show him these pictures.

did he do anything resembling any of this? NO? then it's a tear out

I suggested a lawsuit but the bf thinks it's too small of a job to go through it all. He uses his entire family for his business for years he doesn't want to mess that up. But I'm going to suggest it again.

There is wood underneath the curb I believe and then added mud I think. The marble on top of the curb is going to be sealed tomorrow but I really don't want him touching anything else. I hear you that seal doesn't mean waterproof... thanks for the info... again I'm clueless when it comes to this stuff hence why I'm on this forum. I'm lucky to run into you.

He's only sealing the marble on the lip. But that doesn't mean waterproof as you said.

Taking note of everything you are saying from the mortar walls to the drain to the slope.. in fact printing out this page and showing everyone involved. Everything is being noted. Wow thank you so much.

Assuming he has a license as he's done work for my bf's multiple businesses over the years. I'm thinking he may be an ok guy with painting and such for him but not a detailed tile job. I assumed this was a tile guy. My bad. I gravely regret the decision.

He did warn us about using marble... at the very very least. I will make note not to do marble.

Noted on the slope and the green board.

He put something under the marble floor I don't recall. It had writing on it (I know that's totally not helpful ha) I watched him carry it in not put it down. I did watch him put some puddy (Clueless as to what) or something on top of it. He came in and put the puddy on top and waited a day for it to dry. Came in again and put more puddy down then waited a day. Then put something else on top. I know not that helpful! Think it's time for me to take Shower n Tile 101. I'll have to ask him. I assumed he was a tile guy and knew what he was doing.

I absolutely will check out John Bridge...

The whole thing needs to be redone I agree.

Well you live and you learn... the damn hard way :(

Hey Miles of Tile he's from Chicago. I live in the burbs. He created a shower pan with some sort of puddy or mudd stuff. Pardon my ignorance I need to take shower/tile 101 class!

Beth just gave you the 101 crash course. Read it carefully.

Paid him half I believe so far. There was a green board (20 years old) behind the tile.. which it seemed he didn't replace. The marble tile was sealed (Posted an updated photo a few hours after the seal) The shower floor doesn't appear to be sloped. The cutting is atrocious I know... just awful. Thank you so much for taking the time I sincerely appreciate it you have no idea! I will admit this is ultimately my fault I didn't really step in I just assumed he'd do a decent job. I'm a shower rookie what can I say.

This is a complete tear out and redo down to the studs. Sorry.

She did!! Wow thank you SO much Beth. Love gettin schooled thank you lady! Yeah he's not coming back and we are going to get someone else in. Everything you said I read to the bf who hired him. Printed everything out. How much would an average job be for my type of shower? It's fairly small. What certifications should I look for when hiring? Thank you!!

Thank you Beth. The cuts around the drain (and everywhere pretty much) are horrible I agree. OK I won't pay him until it's fixed but the question is can he even fix it?

NO he can't because it wasn't done correctly from the beginning and the beginning is not the pretty stuff you see but what is behind the tiles.

Not sure he is even capable. Once the marble is sealed is it too late to fix?

Sealing tile or marble does not make it waterproof so yes, it is too late!

Can the grout on the edges be fixed?

No because what's behind the tile is still wrong.

Would he have to redo the bottom or the whole thing?

The whole thing. It means tearing it all out to the studs!

Not sure about waterproof I do know the marble floor is sealed and the grout is sealed that's all I know :(

Sealing it is not waterproofing. Sealing does not waterproof the tile.

He is also coming back to caulk the sides of the shower lip and install the shower head/plate. Gasp.

Tell him not to bother.

But I need to have him fix this I agree. Not sure how he's going to fix the bottom. Or anything for that matter :(

He doesn't know how to fix it. You need to get rid of him!

Printed everything out. How much would an average job be for my type of shower? It's fairly small. What certifications should I look for when hiring? Thank you!!

What did you pay for him to do this?

I'm not sure on the price my bf took care of it. I agree Cpartist thank you!

Danielle, it varies from region to region.

have this guy give you your money back (the 50% that you paid him) in exchange you won't sue and you'll eat the ruined tile. I mean, you can ask him for everything (or you BF can) but I doubt he will give you back your money, plus the cost of the tile. that's why I said, cut your losses, tell him you'll eat your tile loss, but he has to refund you what you've paid him. if not, up to you if you want to go to court over it. see if he'll demo everything down to the studs in exchange for not repaying you for the tile.

If not, you will have to pay the new tile guy extra for that. (will prob cost 500-1K for demo)

I'd say for all new materials (do yourself a favor and get porcelain tile for the shower floor) and the new tile job, you'll be in the3.5K-7K range. (all depends where you are and who you get and what you pay for materials)

Oh, and forgo the marble on the curb. look into a solid piece of quartz. You can purchase 6" quartz backsplashes that go w/vanity tops. (floor and decor and stone places have them) Have them cut to your curb size (prob 4") and use those.

This is a bathroom I did for a client and used one of those backsplash quartz pieces in a dark charcoal. the shower floor is a porcelain tile in a herringbone. the walls are a blue/gray ceramic subway tile

the other floors are a 12x24 porcelain in a charcoal 'Anthracite' color

This is a marble shower floor, but look at how well the tiles are cut along the edges and the drain. however, the curb has tiles instead of one piece. you really don't want this. (and these are a 2" hex. better than the small ones you had)

Love this floor. if you have a small space, consider doing the same floor tile in and out of the shower. and it's fine to use a little bit bigger tile. these grout joints are a little wider and offer more traction. Love the look of this black w/the white tile. very nice job too.

this is similar to your shower, right? are you having a door like this? look how they framed the outside of this. notice the solid curb. anywhere that water is going to be, you need the wall or floor protected.

You like that basketweave tile inside the shower? you could do it in porcelain

then maybe do an accent around the edge w/your ceramic wall tiles.

they also have solid surface, shower pans ready to install:

Onyx shower base

thought you may like to have a niche. (of course you'll have full tiles on the bottom row!)

Have that new guy come out and survey your current job. have him write down all of the errors he sees. If the other guy refuses to reimburse you for his shoddy work, you'll need documentation if you want to go to small claims court. Does that guy even have a contractors license? if so, you can file a complaint against him through the State contractors board.

Do you have a high end tile store in your city? I mean, a reputable place that sells very nice tile and stone? ask to speak to the manager. ask him who he hired to his OWN home. He will prob give you some names. call them. ask if they're licensed. you can check the validity of their license and see if they have complaints through the state board.

you could also check on Yelp. look for over 100 5 star reviews. chances are, that tile guy is good if he has that many good reviews.

get something written on paper as to expense, what he plans to do.

ask questions on waterproofing. (you've read up on it, yes?? John Bridge has all the tile info you'll ever need!)

You only have to pay a deposit of 10% up front. no more. once he starts, he may ask for more money for materials. it should never exceed 50% before completion.

take pics of the before stuff. shower pan, cement board, waterproofing. post them here as you go if you like.

I got good referrals for tile work from my local plumbing supply store (the guys who sell to contractors). They gave me referrals for plumbers, tile setters and even someone to cut and install custom mirrors. The girl behind the desk had an old fashioned Rolodex with names and numbers for every type of tradesman. She was an absolute wealth of information.

Thanks Jennifer I have a local plumbing supply a block away actually. Thanks again!

A Real Tile Pro will be "booked" for the next 3 to 4 months as quality work is in demand. Cost of labor is going to start at 8K for a 60 inch x 32 inch shower. Labor cost is regional, you will pay twice that in some urban areas. Your tile selection also comes into play; the more intricate the design, the more cost to lay it. Stone, as opposed to tile, equals more cost for labor. When you find your Pro ask him the name of his preferred "frame carpenter". Having a nicely square / plumb / level surface adds greatly to the success of the project.

Keep all the photos. Refuse payment.

There are plenty of qualified tile contractors in the Chicago area. And yes, it's a tear out and re-do by a Pro. You've received some good advise, however remember that a Pro will have his or her preferred methods. The "Redguard" approach mentioned above is not actually used much by the real Pros (although can meet standards if done properly). There are multiple methods and materials and you should rely on a professional to explain what they use and why. Keep in mind that the Pros are busy and you will likely have to wait to get on their schedule. Start here and do a search in Chicago: https://emflipbooks.com/flipbooks/NITL/Directory/2019/ Another good resource is a quality tile store. They will have a list but vet them carefully. Check to see what organizations they belong to. Check references, view their work. Certified installers is a plus.

dragonfly, I like the old school method of mud walls. do the new kids even get taught how to do that? I had one tile guys who loved to mud and said he could do it faster than hanging and taping cbu.

As to price for a new tiled shower install my 3x5 shower with kerdi pan plus waterproofing, tiles labor and glass doors was 10k. 2k was for the glass door rest was waterproofing, tile materials and labor. I hope you paid considerably less. Good luck.

Beth H, Mud floors, yes. Walls, not so much. The structure has to be engineered to support mud walls and unfortunately "they don't build em like they use to". Floors are evenly distributed so not the same issue. I still do walls on occasion when it calls for it, but even us old guys have found some of the newer technologies to make sense. Not floors though, I'm a mud guy. mostly. It's actually kind of a "thing" in our trade, referred to as the foamies and the mudders with some good intentioned bantering among us. It's regional too. California still has a lot of mudders (walls too), but that's evolving. The other systems are spread out across the country as well. Some are into the Schluter products (Kerdi). I prefer Laticrete mostly but adjust based on the application. But my apprentices are definitely taught to mud floors. Multiple ways to get to a well built shower.

CA has a lot of mud guys??? where? Thats an East Coast thing. In S CA your lucky you even get cement board.

Go to HD and you have to ask 10 people where the sheetrock shims are and even then they aren't even sure when they even last sold them.

calif does the tar, then the mortar bed floors. that's the usual method. some do the PVC liners then mortar. I've never seen any use cement board on the floors or curbs.

In S CA your lucky you even get cement board.

wannabath,,I think you mean Florida.

dragonfly, my guys did mud walls on my huge shower. I guess it was framed well enough (husband did all the framing)

Get back what you already PAID. What a mess. What a hack.

WHERE did you FIND this person??? Oh my GOD!

I've saved this post for all of Beth's wonderful info. While I hate seeing such things happen to homeowners (sorry OP) they end up being a lesson to many of us. Good luck.

So sorry this happened to you!

Dang - another mucked up tile job. This dilemma is a keeper.

Do not pay another dime . Sit down with him and tell him that he did a terrible job and that he is liable for the cost of what needs to be replaced or what he did wrong . If you can't come to some sort of agreement with him go to small claims court and file a lawsuit with a mediator from the court . This is a terrible work and you will have lots of expenses in the future if it's not fixed well. This worker that you have hired must have some sort of insurance or liability insurance covering his work . Good luck ...and don't let this deter you in the future . Just inform yourself in the future on how something is supposed to be done ..then hire after you have an ironclad contract spelling out what work is being done and your expectations ..price , time frame and any problems that may occur and make sure they have work related liability insurance . But YOU must be better informed about any work that goes into your house ..so that you can discern if the person will be doing the job you hired him to do or not and have an insurance policy that covers , replacement, costs , time is money ...so you need to put everything in writing ...in the future !

Insurance doesn’t pay for poor quality work. Insurance is in place if he breaks a pipe and floods your house.

I agree about being better informed. I have 600 sq. of hardwood to lay and finish. Filled out the from on HomeAdvisor. When he walked thru the door I asked if he did hardwood floors. He said Yes, I do everything(ding, ding red flag). As we spoke about the job he showed me pictures of the everything(hot water heater, stairs, laminate counter top, one pic of laminate floor install, paint job, tile work - not one pic of hardwood flooring). Needless to say I would NEVER hire him for my hardwood flooring.

following

Danielle,

I had a very bad experience with tiling in my bathroom renovation a couple of years ago. At least I thought I did until I saw this. Mine was mainly just the floor and had to do with the fact that the glass tile fell off of the paper when the wet saw was used and thus became difficult to lay. Because the guy was not experienced enough, he did not know how to work with it. It looked awful and had to be redone but nothing like this.

To be practical, it depends on how much energy you are willing to expend. Going to court and getting your money back is going to take a great deal of time and energy. I would try to settle with him if possible. Let him know that you are very aware from the postings here that his job was completely unacceptable. Tell him you need to get your money back and have him remove everything he did. This will save on the demo work that you would have to pay someone else to do. Then get some recommendations on tile layers from someone in your area and then go and see some of their work. Only then should you hire someone to do your shower. Make sure the waterproofing is done properly. It should look like one of the methods in the postings that others have shown here.

I do not know what the look is that you are going for but you should have tile on the floor that is not a slick surface and that can be cleaned easily. I have a textured glass tile on my floor and because of the texture it is not slippery. I have very large porcelain tiles on my wall and thus very few grout lines to clean. Think about the cleaning as you choose your materials. Once you find someone new to do your tile work, ask them for guidance in selection of materials. Even the people at Home Depot or Floor and Decor are often trained enough to help you to select materials. Or any quality tile store will have a list of good and reputable tile people. Most of the good ones will be busy though and you may need to wait to have it done properly but it will be worth it in the long run.

Sorry you had to go through this as I know how frustrating it is. But do not under any circumstances pay any more to this person and get your money back if you can.

I'm so sorry you're having to experience this. In the post above, Gail gave you some excellent advice. "Tell him you need to get your money back and have him remove everything he did. Then get some recommendations on tile layers from someone in your area and then go and see some of their work." Please let us know how this goes & turns out in the long run. Good luck.

winnie, take your spam elsewhere. you're flagged

Beth H:

Apparently that worked great. Can you flag Houzz for me please? I get an ad for their crap software every time I change threads.

Thanks.

Sadly, people see home renovation shows and think they know all that is needed, it's easy peasy.

I have a degree from Parsons School Of Design and years of experience in designing and supervising the construction of commercial spaces, but currently I am working on drawings and specifications for the renovation of the (tiny) bathroom in my (small) apartment...and even I am a nervous wreck over it.

Because renovating a residential space is NOTHING like renovating a commercial space and also I live in a small NYC apartment of <500sf (we did 'tiny homes' before it was hip and do not even consider 500sf 'small').

I had already gutted and renovated my (also small) galley kitchen, but that was a walk in the park compared to this. For one, you don't have to rip out all the gyp board and floor substrate in order to waterproof in a kitchen. And (as I know) you can live (for 2 1/2 months!) in an apartment without a kitchen.

Because of my years of experience, I knew to be there *every* second of the kitchen renovation. When the tiling started, I watched the tiler like a hawk...but bathroom tiling is a whole nother creature - because the majority of the work in a bathroom is tiling AND water water everywhere (watch out below, mean neighbor!).

In my bathroom, the GC has to first cut apart the existing gross (peeling-from-previous-owner's-cheap-reglazing-job) cast iron tub to get it out the door THEN he can rip off all the gyp board and floor tiles so we will can see the material and condition of the floor substrate (plywood over concrete?) and have actual dimensions so I can order the solid surface shower base to replace the tub with (lead time, my friends, lead time!).

(Did I mention the bathroom is in my small bedroom and *everything* has to be taken out of the bedroom to do this job and also I will have to stay in a hotel for a month? Fun times ahead!)

But at least I know EXACTLY how bad this will be and how long it will take (in my dreams, 3 weeks, in reality +4 weeks). I really cannot imagine trying this if my only experience was watching home renovation shows, but I never was much of an optimist! Wish me luck.

"I watched the tiler like a hawk"

I would never tolerate this from a customer, but then I woudn't have picked someone who did this.

Augusta Byron, Good attitude and realistic expectations. This is why "regional differences" matter. Best wishes for a successful outcome.

@ Joseph

Always good to see hostility from a contractor...thanks for letting everyone know which tiler not to hire!

Augusta:

From where do you get hostility please? I've thrown customers off their own jobs. No, I didn't pick them up by the shirt collar and belt, I just let them know that one of us was going to leave immediately and they had to pick which one. They always remove themselves.

You don't get to watch me make the sausage in your home without my permission.

The vast majority of tile installations do meet the consumer expectations. Unfortunately there is unqualified labor out there (and we hear about those especially in these groups). This does require due diligence on behalf of the consumer. Poor craftsmanship hurts the consumer and the QUALIFIED trades. Hire wisely. Find the right tile installer for your project

Qualified tile contractors have verifiable experience and use proper methods and materials.

Ask them about:

Experience – skills, knowledge, training

How many years have they been working exclusively as tile installers?

· It takes many years to become proficient as a dedicated, qualified tile professional. Five years or more would be an expected minimum.

How was the installer trained? Do they participate in on-going professional industry training from organizations and or manufacturers, and specifically what?

· Installers who have completed an apprenticeship under a Qualified Tile Installer and participate in industry training are generally more likely to follow standards and recommendations and stay current with products, materials, and industry updates.

Talk to them about positives and challenges of past projects

· Get to know the tile professional as part of your project team. Do they take pride in their work? If your General Contractor is hiring the tile installer, it may make sense to request meeting with the GC and tile installer in advance of the installation.

References – photos, past projects, successes

Do they have a company website or social media page with photos of their work?

· Professionals will have a public presence that is available to consumers so you can review their work and customer reviews. Lack of a traceable, legitimate, and committed business should be a deterrent to hiring.

Can you speak with recent customers and see photos of those projects?

· Qualified, experienced tile contractors will have a loyal client base that is happy to recommend them and share their experience.

What has been their greatest challenge as a tile installer?

· Listen carefully to understand the installer’s limitations and ability to meet your expectations.

Materials and Methods – specifications, warranties

Are they familiar with the TCNA Handbook and ANSI Standards and do they follow these industry recommendations?

· The TCNA Handbook coupled with ANSI Standards are the industry recognized guidelines for the installation of tile for a wide range of applications. A qualified tile professional will be familiar with and know how to specify and use these reference tools.

Do they have experience working with the type of tile you plan to use?

· There are different methods, materials and considerations when installing various tile products… ceramic, porcelain, large format tile, handmade tile, natural stone, glass. Verify their experience and training with the tile product you have chosen.

What manufacturer’s products do they use and do they comply with manufacturer’s instructions?

· There are many manufacturers of quality tile setting materials. Most perform well with use of approved methods and adherence to manufacturer specifications. Qualified tile installers will be well-versed on the materials and systems they prefer and should be able to answer your questions about the process and materials and their associated warranties.

If wet areas (showers/baths) are to be included in the work performed, what approved system/methods will they use to assure a long-lasting installation?

· Tile installations in wet areas require some very important preparation to avoid leaks and unwanted moisture problems. Hybrid or unapproved methods, and the use of materials inappropriate for this application can contribute to a very costly and unwanted result that too often requires complete removal and replacement by a qualified professional. A quality installation should last decades or longer.

Professionalism – craftsmanship, certifications, insurance

Do they or their team belong to a professional organization like NTCA (National Tile Contractor’s Association)?

· Industry involvement is one indication of a tile installation company’s commitment to their craft. It gives them access to education, technical information, and other resources to assist them in professionally serving you.

Do they have liability insurance and are their employees covered by Worker’s Compensation Insurance?

· Make sure you can verify appropriate insurance coverage.

Are they licensed (if required in your area)?

· Verify. Some states do not require tile contractor’s to be licensed.

Are they, or do they have Certified Tile Installer’s (Certified Tile Education Foundation, CTI) on their team?

· The certification of tile installers is an important step forward for the consumer. The industry has established a process to certify tile installers. Certification identifies an installer as being a dedicated and knowledgeable professional whose competence in installing tile has been verified to meet specific tile industry standards.

Check the National Tile Contractor's Assn. "Find a member" and the Certified Tile Education Foundation for CTI's in your area.

Every contractor should be bonded, but few clients think about pursuing bond assurances (to top up limitations of small claims court judgements of 5k or less). I recommend getting your small claims judgement first and then go for additional reimbursement from bond assurances linked to the contractor’s business license.