amakingspace

Staircase reno - need help, please!

A Makingspace
7 years ago

We are re-doing our staircase in part because our terror of a kitten ripped up the carpet on the sides (you can see by zooming in). We are doing hardwood stair returns stained to match our floors.

But I need some help with some details. What balusters? The existing honey oak ones have to go (sorry, not sorry) and I am unsure what to get to replace. Wrought iron? Which ones Or what others? And for back of stairs, wood or white? (Also note, the dining room will be painted soon and the oak chair rail will be removed).

Pic of of the hard-wood stair inspiration first, followed by pics of our stairs:





Comments (89)

  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    7 years ago

    If you have enough carpet to redo the damaged stairs, and you don't have a couple thousand to do the wood, then your choice is clear. Having the carpet all you need is a good installer to cut and paste around the existing newel post and balusters. Done. btw, just because kittie is declawed doesn't mean he/she will not be able to mess up that carpet. The behavior is what you have to change. There are some products you can get to spray on the carpet that supposedly kitties don't like and go elsewhere for their scratching needs. This plus a lot of vigilance for several weeks and the behavior can be modified. Good luck!

  • A Makingspace
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Thanks Flo. Any suggestions who to call for carpet repair? (And also we did the laser declaw our vet recommended not just for stair problem--we have little ones and needed it done for other reasons and have indoors only cat).

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  • A Makingspace
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    JFig - thanks. Tying to translate what you are saying. Returns might work?

  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    7 years ago

    Got it. Good, glad kittie is in a loving home! I think what JFig was saying is an alternative to the wood replacement is using paintable material and just paint it instead of stained solid wood tread material. Just used a lot of "lingo". Correct me if I'm wrong JFig.

  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    7 years ago

    Any good carpet installer could take your carpet and replace what you have. It just might not be worth their time is the only problem, so you might pay a bit of a premium. You would just be paying for labor and usually they make their money from mark-up on materials. But hey, it isn't rocket science, but it does take an experienced person in doing stairs to make it come out right. Contact carpeting company and see if they can get you one of their good stair carpet people to give you estimate. I would figure about $75 a stair. Roughly.

  • A Makingspace
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Thanks, Flo--I might get some estimates from carpet installers. And maybe also one from someone who can do full wood treads and existing carpet runner on first few stairs. Who would you recommend for that? Unsure where to call, as our hard-wood guy didn't do it.

  • Cindi
    7 years ago
    So....I just wanted to give you some encouragement on your project. If you really want to change to a hardwood look, I think you can do it even making due with your carpet. You would need a decent carpenter. Most of all you would have to see how the stairs are under the carpet. You don't have to pull all the treads and risers off, just remove balusters. There is a company stair trek that makes hardwood treads that are thinner and fit right over your existing treads. They run about 50 dollars per tread. Risers about 10 for white. Then you would have to buy spindles, check out stair parts online. Your staircase is so pretty, by the way, I love how it is open on both sides. Don't fret too much about the cat tear, take your time to figure out what you want to do.
  • Cindi
    7 years ago
    Sorry the company is stair tek. You could actually do all hardwood steps on your open stairway fairly easily and transition to carpet on the closed portion. That would be easier than cutting the carpet to runner look. You would simply remove carpet from bottom steps, remove balusters, stain stair tek retreads, glue on and drill out opening for balusters. The tricky part is seeing how the treads fit over your existing stairs. That's the job for the carpenter. However, it is going to cost for the carpenters time and your materials. Fixing the carpet is also not that hard if you have matching. Now that would leave your bottom steps hardwood and whatever risers and balusters you choose. I really don't know how you could make a runner to match upper stairs though.
  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    7 years ago

    @cindi, she already said that there is just "subflooring" under the carpet, so there would most likely be a height difference and the "stair tek" might not be a good solution. The cost is the fundamental issue here, so since she has replacement carpet, just replacing the carpet appears to be the most cost effective solution at this point. I do agree however, I would put my money into all wood treads for that first 4-6 steps (the ones below the walled in area) and would use the existing carpet as a runner over the wood treads. The trick is finding the right craft to do a good job on this. The original stairs are interesting with the open sides, but the basic job is "builder grade" so always hard to fix that especially on the upper stairs. It can be done, just costs money!!


  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    7 years ago

    OK, that is good info. I was more concerned about "squeaking" if there is a gap under the overlay, if you know what I mean?

  • PRO
    J Fig Carpentry
    7 years ago
    I'm working now but here is a pic I pulled off net as an example for you. The white paint grade board on the outside is your skirt board then mitered into the small riser section that would butt up to your carpet. The stained oak pcs you see are your false end treads. Instead of the round bull nose on them make them square. They would look more modern.
  • Cindi
    7 years ago
    Looks like a nice way to go also. Would be pretty on her stairway and she could make use of her carpet.
  • A Makingspace
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Thanks Cindi for the nice encouragement - I needed that!

  • A Makingspace
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Thanks J Fig - I don't really get all the terms, but will re-read and try and understand :)

  • A Makingspace
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    And thanks Flo, too, for your continued help and supportive comments.

  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    7 years ago

    You are very welcome. We all help each other here and I think you have a lot of good options to consider. Let us know how things unfold. Don't forget to include a new scratching board in your budget! Keep your sense of humor. It will be a great "story" to tell!

  • A Makingspace
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Indeed! Here is the damage closer up, if you can see it (bad lighting, sorry). it's just on the side there.


  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    7 years ago

    I think a good carpet person could remove the damage carpet and glue in new pieces and with that pile it won't show at all. That would be a great result! Not that bad really. Great scratching post though. Ideal! haha!

  • User
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    There is a difference between the first inspiration photo, and the next two, or at least it appears so on my small phone. The first pic is a fitted carpet, like wall-to-wall, with padding underneath and the edges rolled under. The next two are runners without padding, and binding on the edges.

    You do not want to transition between carpet with pad, and a runner without pad on the same stairs. While replacing the entire tread with hardwood is great for a runner without padding, it is not the best method when you are only doing that to the first five steps. J Fig's picture shows 3/4" thick false treads that leaves room to continue with the padding, and butt the carpeting into, or roll it under slightly to keep the cut edge from showing. The part I am not crazy about is the abrupt edge of the false tread that shows when the carpet is rolled under. I have undercut that edge a little to lessen the effect on shag carpet, but it is still noticeable.

    I prefer using a 3/8 thick false tread with 1/2" padding between, and a binding on the carpet that laps over the false tread, and looks more like a runner. The tread is slightly less thick than the pad, and eased over, so that the edge does not telegraph through as the padding gets trampled. I also prefer to make my own false treads so that they match the existing profile with padding better. This stairs, being open on both sides where you plan the hardwood, should make modifying things real easy.

    You really do not need to worry about squeeks this way because the only parts added are not where you will be walking, and a good glue job never hurts. I have no idea why you can not reuse the old railing.

    And, you might go into shock when you find out how much they charge to wrap carpeting around spindles. When the carpeting wears out, you would have to pay for it again, where if you do the false treads now, it is only a one time charge.

    https://www.bondproducts.com/instabind-carpet-binding-tape/

  • A Makingspace
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Fred thank you. Can I hire you?! :) it sounds like you think hardwood returns or false treads (same thing?) would look okay? Using our existing carpet?

  • User
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    The travel expenses you would have to pay would be more than the work ;)

    Yes, it will look good if done correctly. I try to avoid wrapping spindles with carpet at all costs, and often do regular carpet.

    Another approach is to treat wat goes under the spindles as something other than a stair tread. Think architectural feature, capital?cornice?base?, not sure what the correct term would be... Carpet wrapped spindles are a fairly modern look, exposed tread edges are traditional, maybe colonial/country. If you want a more sophisticated look, French/Grecian/Roman, you could raise the spindle bases up to just above the carpet, so the edges of the carpet go underneath. (don't ask me for pictures ;))

  • A Makingspace
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Fred thanks. And do you have any pics instead of doing returns/false treads on first several steps with carpet? Also where/who do you suggest we call for this? Carpet places? Or?

  • A Makingspace
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Tundra I like that but we want to keep carpet on steps.

  • User
    7 years ago

    Call a really good finish carpenter that does mostly stair treads and railings.

  • A Makingspace
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Maybe a stupid question -- But how do I find such a person? Like where do I look, under what exactly, with an organization or what?

  • User
    7 years ago

    Well, I just happen to already know all the good people in every trade, since I am in the business. You might try the yellow pages and call a few people that sound like they do stair railing, and ask them. Also, maybe some building inspectors can recommend someone. Our building department has a wall full of business cards on it. A general contractor may just refer you to the right subcontractor for such a small job.

  • A Makingspace
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Hey Fred, JFig, or others, I can't find a picture example of what we are discussing (false treads/returns with carpet in middle on first several steps to wall). Can anyone provide one? Thanks!

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    Flo Mangan
    7 years ago


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  • A Makingspace
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Thanks, Flo--but it looks like those returns go all the way up? Trying to envision that just to the wall, like my staircase. Just having trouble finding a pic.

  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    7 years ago

    Not done much which is why you can't find photos. Old time builder approach to save money frankly. I hunted around quite a bit and couldn't find a photo like what you want. I thought you were just going to get the carpet repaired? Are you back to thinking about doing the half returns?

  • A Makingspace
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Flo, I don't know. I want to get estimates on each, really.

  • A Makingspace
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Wait--maybe it's this?


  • tozmo1
    7 years ago

    Fix the carpet. To find a good installer, go to an independent carpet place (not a chain), someone who has been in the business for a while and sells all ranges of carpet. Tell them your dilemma (bring one of those cute kids you mentioned) and ask who they know who does carpet repair on the side. I find that local stores know good installers who want to make a few bucks on the side and are happy to refer them to you because it builds goodwill. And then when you're ready to make a big purchase, remember the local store and don't shop them only to then order online to save a few bucks. I've found great carpet installers, plumbers and appliance repair people that way. Good luck! Save the $$ for the kid's college or your retirement! More damage will occur, learn to love it. When they are all grown up, do the big replace.

  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    7 years ago
    Closer but looks like carpet is over full wood tread to me.
  • User
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I think the point of my comment was missed. If done right, you should not be able to tell the difference between a full wood tread replacement, and a veneer with just the nosing replaced. (Other than the nosing in the last picture above is only 3/4" thick, and my second picture would be around 1.24" thick.)

    There is a big difference between trying to plop this on top of an old tread.

    Or using a tread veneer that is thinner than the carpet pad, and replacing just the nosing in its original position.

    In fact, the latter tends to look more "real" than replacing the entire tread when there is padding to hide underneath the carpet. Otherwise, you end up looking like you left a pillow under the carpet,...or the cat.

  • A Makingspace
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    So your point was to use a special tread veneer for the hardwood return, yes? But that it can still be done for first several steps leaving carpet in middle?

  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    7 years ago

    Fred, you made sputter out some coke! That was so funny. Great photos. I need so save those for future reference. thanks!

  • User
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Yes, not my photos, but the second one (above) illustrates the gist of my preferred method when using wall-to-wall carpet with padding underneath, as opposed to a standard "runner".

  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    7 years ago

    Very good idea. Of course, I'm a "authentic" type but budgets can mess up that thinking!

  • User
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    "But that it can still be done for first several steps leaving carpet in middle?"

    Actually, you leave the padding in the middle. The carpet still goes over the top of the veneer. The only difference between "authentic" and this method is that the hardwood only goes about 1" under the carpet,.. and the nosing/ bullnose might be a little thicker than on some "authentic" treads.

    .

    I had plumb forgotten that the cat caused the problem to begin with when I wrote that ^^^ :D

  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    7 years ago

    I'm still laughing! At the expense of poor kitty!

  • Cindi
    7 years ago
    Fred, thx for the link to the bonding product!
  • User
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    You had me wondering for a while...

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_glue

    UntiI I remembered the edge binding.

    https://www.bondproducts.com/instabind-carpet-binding-tape/

  • tozmo1
    7 years ago

    Kitty is hiding deeper into the carpet over "bonding" wikipedia link :-0

  • User
    6 years ago

    Here is an example I just ran across that somewhat explains my description above;

    "Another approach is to treat what goes under the spindles as something other than a stair tread. Think architectural feature, capital?cornice?base?, not sure what the correct term would be... Carpet wrapped spindles are a fairly modern look, exposed tread edges are traditional, maybe colonial/country. If you want a more sophisticated look, French/Grecian/Roman, you could raise the spindle bases up to just above the carpet, so the edges of the carpet go underneath."

    If you look closely, the base for the spindles is above the carpet, and then the carpet dies into the "wall" the same way all the way down the stairs, instead of a different look where it covers a hardwood tread.

    https://st.hzcdn.com/simgs/bc52cc0b09067fc5_9-8156/home-design.jpg


  • A Makingspace
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Hey Houzz--I thought I would update my thread with a happy stair ending. Stairs were repaired with existing (old) carpet!

    Here's a reminder of before with kitty damage:


    And now after:

    Yes, we still need to paint everywhere, remove the chair railing, etc. But for the stairs, all in all, this was the most simple and CHEAPEST (it ran $150 total!) solution to fix our stairs. Thought you all might like to see it after all the discussion. :)

  • A Makingspace
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    And Flo, thanks to you and other for the encouragement to go with the carpet fix!

  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    6 years ago

    Awesome, nothing like getting a great outcome for very little expense!! What are we going to do with the money you saved!!! Hahahaha! Just kidding! Looks really nice.

    A Makingspace thanked Flo Mangan