Thanks for the comment! I know that mosaic virus can look similar to variegation but wanted to show you guys hear and see what your opinions were. Neat!

Rose Mosaic Virus does not seem to show symptoms like your leaflet in the photo has. If that rose is a product of a less than well raised background (top propagating techniques used by a reputable grower), who knows what maladies it acquired and now possesses. Then again, that could just be a flukey coloration that does not recur.

I used to grow an Apricot Candy which bloomed its head off, but alas, defoliated from excess summer heat coupled with serious vulnerability to black spot. Before I became fully aware of the lone, original one's weaknesses, I put in three more Apricot Candys. I liked it so much.

The three came from a reputable online rose nursery, gallon size. Every one had Rose Mosaic Virus symptoms as soon as their grower's foliage stripped stems leafed out (Did I give you a hint of the nursery name?), but the RMV symptoms cleared up and never recurred for the next ~4 years.

It was then I removed the bushes, all 4, even though they bloomed with abandon, but I wanted to have as black spot free a rose garden as is possible without regular spraying. Hence, they all 4 got evicted. Their foliage could not take heat. It just dropped off about half way up a cane by August 1, even with no black spot present.

Have I reached my black spot free rose garden goal? No, not yet. That goal may never be entirely attainable. Black spot mutates. Varieties that are resistant to most strains may succumb to new ones. It's a continuous, ever changing drama......fighting black spot.

Moses.

Lilly & asjad, thank you for your comments ♡ I am excited to grow these roses. I do already have a few Peach Swirls but they are good enough that I wanted a few more! They seem pretty tough and disease resistant in my area.

Here are my older Peach Swirls growing at our old farm

Vapor Vac and Moses, I would love to try a Peach Melba. I will have to keep an eye out for it.

Moses, I havent tried ordering plants from Walmart online but have had good luck from various roses and other plants bought in the store. It seems about the same as H Depot or Lowes etc.

Sultry,

I have never ordered roses from Lowe's Online .

Sultry,

You Floridians are extremely resilient and resourceful. A broken ankle though.....YIKES! I wish there was something I could do for you. Do you have backup help? I can pray for you and will.

Moses.

Thank you Susan, yes I did see that one. I got on the wait list for a few that I wanted but they are out of stock.

Sultry - you are an example of resilience in rose gardeners that you maintain hope for your roses and a positive attitude about your own injury in the face of natural disaster. I hope your ankle is doing better and the cleanup is moving forward at least slowly. Hurricanes are among the most damaging natural disasters as they affect everyone in a region, whereas our tornadoes can be severe damage for some and nothing much for others.

As for rose sales, I took advantage of the Antique Rose Emporium sale, and Northland Roses has just released their new offerings of the year for 2027, some of which are particularly nice. Not a specific sale but their prices are well under $30 which is a bargain.

Hang in there and thanks for letting us know!

Cynthia

I just called Roses Unlimited, Ben, and you're right. Their last day is 11-20-26. I left a message asking if I could be sent a Hot Princess now. Hope they have one and that they consent to send it to me at this time. I can winter it over protected, until a spring, '27 planting. Otherwise, budded maiden it is if I want Hot Princess, unless another source is discovered.

Thanks for the heads up, Ben!

Moses.

Ben,

K & M Nursery, Mississippi, sells Hot Princess but its on R. fortuniana rootstock. I have not heard favorable reports on R. fortuniana root stock surviving winters here in W. Pennsylvania, zone 6b. Still searching.

Moses.

I’m certainly not a Grace Rose Farm advocate, but I do believe in giving credit where credit is due: I made one order from GRF 2 or 3 years ago of 6 rose bushes. I only got 5 and they refunded me for the one they never sent. The 5 I did get all survived. They have been slower starters for me, but the were ok.

Fair enough. Unfortunately the amount of people I've heard of who have gotten no rose bushes and/or refunds cancels any "decent" roses someone else may have gotten. This is a big reason these types of grifters can stay in business, becaue people support them even knowing they have screwed a huge number of others over.

Then gracie poo will get a haircut, buy a new dress to spin around her rose fields in, change her site, add new "ecxlusive" "vip" "kardashian" "from the gardens of versailles" roses, and try to swing everyone around for another scam.

Try not to support if possible. Shop at smaller online vendors who are actual humans you can talk to, or local when possible so that these scam companies can't stay afloat.

The hybrid tea John Paul II is a spectacular white in all regards, but it black spotted badly for me (check my climate above....black spot reigns here).

These have redish/pink buds, but pure white blooms that I have grown and I can vouch for their excellent black spot fighting ability:

Marie Pavie - get the fully double version, not the semi double version.

Henry Hudson

White Pet

This one is new, but has shown great traits thus far:

White Veranda

I wish there were more hybrid tea type bloomed whites that were victorious over black spot.

You can't have enough whites in a rose garden. Whites elevate the atmosphere around themselves, giving a regal relief to any rose garden.

Moses.

I imagine the discussion at hand is about repeating roses, but my favorite white rose -- indeed, one of my favorite roses -- is 'Madame Hardy'. Simply unmatched, for bloom form, and a lovely scent and good health as well.

My favorite white rose is Pope John Paul 2. It also happens to be the Saddleback Caterpillars favorite. I have been badly stung more than once, by the little greedy guts hiding underneath the leaves. They blend right in. Its okay, they can have the leaves, I will take the blooms. It blooms often and smells heavenly. It does get a little black spot but I wouldnt be without it.

I wish I hadn't removed my Savannah some years ago. Its pancake flat full open bloom bothered me then. These days, its redeeming qualities as Daniela shows, make me realize that my past decision was a poor, hasty one. If I had just given it more time I would have discovered that not all its blooms go flat. I live quite happily with my Bliss which in almost every case the full open blooms loose profile depth.....still a much beloved rose to me.

I have since seen a magnificent specimen of Savannah growing in a friend's garden that makes me double regretful.

There's only one solution, put Savannah at the front of my future purchases list.

Moses.

Dianela, I am gardening north of Dallas near the Texas/OK border. We do have largely red clay soil here but my land also has a fair amount of loam. It was previously used as farming land until sometime in the 70s and then was untouched other than the occasional mowing until we built a few years ago. My Savannah is in a really good location with lots of sun and where it gets lots of attention. It's own root. I am also mystified by how roses can behave so differently in each person's garden. I spend a lot of time researching and deliberating before I get a rose, but it seems research only gets you so far! I hope mine will mature more over the winter and maybe will finally start to shine next year. Yours has those lovely cupcake blossoms already!

What I like about Savannah - health. It has zero black spot in my hot and humid southeast with no spray. It has big blooms when the weather is cool, like right now in November. What I do not like about it - it does not self-clean, and in the hot summer it stays with its baked petals until deadheaded. The scent is ok but after reading that it won the most fragrant rose title at some exhibition, I expected more. It will reach 10ft on its own root if not pruned.

On HMFR's evaluation site the reports on Love Song's disease resistance are very favorable. The foliage is listed as being strong, holding on all summer long. Its flower output is also very favorably reported upon. Stem weakness in holding up sometimes disheveled booms was commented upon, and little/no scent seem to be the only negatives on it.

Wish I grew it and could give first hand info.

I would be cautiously optimistic about it not requiring spraying for disease.

Winter hardiness may be an issue, though.

Moses.

That lavender color is what drew me to Love Song too, and Moses makes a good point about its disease resistance. In a humid zone 6b summer like Rhode Island, I would still give it plenty of morning sun and good air circulation and skip spraying unless black spot actually shows up. Have you thought about planting it somewhere sheltered from harsh winter wind, since hardiness seems like the bigger question here?

I actually don't have any spots sheltered from wind....unfortunately the house came with 48 pine trees.

Vapor,

II wanted to support your post but because of the ravages of the reinfestation of rose midge fly in late summer, and the devastation of saw fly and cabbage butterfly caterpillar damage, my flower output for the fall flush was/is abysmal.

I will say though, that the flower of Reminiscent Coral is huge and has a presence that draws you in. There is one fading bloom now on my one and only bush, which was outstanding at its peak. I was planning to remove Reminiscent Coral because it defoliated from black spot to an unacceptable level, but that lovely flower has caused me to give it a reprieve. If I need to spray it next year, I will, reluctantly, because of my goal of having a black spot free a rose garden as is possible, is not being kept....but that flower! Hopefully it will mature out of its black spot susceptibility.

Moses.

Yes Vapor, I have to pick my varieties carefully because I have such limited space available with only one bed of roses. It's big for one bed being 18' long and 8' deep, front to back, but that's all the space I have available in my tiny city 20' X 100' lot. 50' X 20' is my house, and 25' X 20' is the garden and patio space with 25' X 20' for the car pad.

The mirror bed to the rose bed, on the other side of the center walk, used to be all winter hardy cacti. Folks did a double take when they saw the cactus bed, especially during wintertime. The cacti were a spectacle when in full bloom in June, and were a passion of mine, a 35 year long project. They had to be removed last year with great regrets, but the dangers of a fall into the bed were too serious for me to ignore. Now the bed is dedicated to dwarf conifers. What gems they are.

I will be forced to spray a systemic insecticide next year, and because for the program I developed which kept the Rose Midge Fly pretty much under control in the past, it needs to be done without fail, every two weeks to 10 days.

I also have found that some rose varieties are almost Rose Midge Fly proof. They are the ones like the Drifts, whose small green flower buds are often passed over. The substantial, large green budded varieties having chunky new growth tips are mercilessly attacked.

Moses.

Lovely! That blue/pink combination is charming.

I had the third and best flush of the year for Buff Beauty late October-early November. I was surprised since we have already had our first (very mild) frost. I brought a rooted cutting of Buff Beauty with me when I moved here out of affection for it. Mine came from a Mendocino County nursery no longer in existence. It is very easy to root from cuttings. I have since pruned it back since BB can be large and rambuncious, and I need to keep it to a moderate size. My new garden is much smaller than my previous one, and I have fewer than 2 dozen roses here.

Thanks! I stopped deadheading asjad492 .....

Diane,

Happy Birthday! May you have many more so that you can keep inspiring me. Thanks for your help!

Moses. 🎂 🍧

How about Brindabella Purple Prince? You can get quite a large bush of it at Home Depot Online for a very good price, shipped free. Wait until spring 2027 if this option interests you. Early May is perfect timing with Home Depot, before heat kicks in.

I have Brindabella Pink Princess, Brindabella Dawn, and Brindabella First Lady. They are being trialed so no final report is out yet. I hope to add B. Purple Prince soon. They are very promising so far. B. Pink Princess is the oldest of the three and has been superior in fighting black spot. She almost needs no dead heading to keep putting out blooms.

Moses.

Markay,

Your Dee-Lish would make mine blush. I only get flowers at my bushes' top halves because mine are bedding bushes with close neighbors, plus your gardening skills make me feel like a child playing in a sandbox compared to a nuclear physicist working out equations at the chalkboard.

Jim,

You can see by Markay's photo that Dee-Lish does get tall and slenderly columnar....all on its own. No special pruning seems able to change its mind. Another nice thing about this soldier is there have never been any octopus arms on any of mine. The canes are super strong and never lean with the weight of rain soaked blooms as so many long caned roses do. You know how summer rains can cause a bush to loose its form with canes knocked over by the weight of water saturated foliage and blooms. This is a rare event with Dee-Lish.

I hope yours exceeds your expectations. Go for it!

Rifis,

Isn't it amazing how roses travel. Brindabella Purple Prince was developed by an Australian couple from humid Queensland, hence the need for black spot resistance which all the Brindabella line of roses (and there are a slew of them), seem to possess. Then a BPP at a commercial greenhouse in Sarasota Florida is discovered to mutate to a pink form instead of the normal purple. It is given source recognition and named Brindabella Pink Princess, quite fittingly

I imagine B. Pink Princess has worked her way back to Australia, to the original breeders, John and Sylvia Gray. Counting the trip made by the parent rose B. Purple Prince, B. Pink Princess has a circumnavigation credit to her accolades!

Moses.

Jim,

Another thing about Dee-Lish is that mine have never made those massive basal canes that have candelabra flower clusters at their tips. All basals and laterials end in clusters of no more than 5 buds on my bushes so far, and they are 5+ yrs. old. I like this trait. Although having a basal with 20+ buds is impressive, the growth usually throws the bush's form out of balance, often towering over it. As the buds in a candelabra bloom in succession the last to open are often disappointingly undersized, and the space in the bush's top that the worn out candelabra demands is a gaping eyesore. Just my opinion shared.

Moses.

I don’t tend to get after Dee-lish very aggressively because it drops its petals well, holds a nice shape, and reblooms regardless - plus the birds like to nest in it.

Thanks, Markay! I'll be sure to get after mine more aggressively, given that it'll be living in a 15 gallon pot :-D

Be careful everyone. Be conservative in your dealings until you are satisfied that your money is well spent. My wish is that they succeed and become the go to nursery for hard to find roses, with high praises from all their Roses Forum customers.

Moses.

You make good points, Elina. Rarely in commerce is there a merchant who takes an 'Honest Abe,' approach to his profit margjns. They're out there, but not in buckets full.

Moses.

And… Francis Roses lists on website these partner nurseries…

The list starts:

56 Flowers, Milton, Ontario

All My Thyme

Berridge Nurseries

FL Sunshine Roses

Foxview Roses

Fuirk Roses

Otto & Sons

Raft Island

Sundrops Nursery

Redland Ranch Roses

Sweet Hilltop Farm & Nursery

The Rose Cove

Thorncrest Rose Farm

I saw Raft Island -it has a large Francis Roses Inventory, but not all. I looked at Foxview a week ago-they had some roses. . I looked at Fuirk this morning-they have a few Francis roses.

I may sit this one out. Rallye is intriguing.

Great news that both the new True Gratitude and your existing "True" roses are doing so well for you! I agree that it's risky to expect that these True roses will stay at the advertised 3X3' size even in a cold climate. Except for the genuinely compact True Love, all my "True" roses are extremely robust and tend to be 5-6' tall with lanky arms. I sincerely wonder what they'll be like in successive years.

My True Affection is particularly long and lanky and I planted it at the front of a bed expecting it to be 3X3 feet. I've draped its arms along a low 2' fence in front of that bed and it rivals the size of Wollerton Old Hall climber next to it (that was mislabeled as a smaller rose). Both are covering that small wire fence and I keep having to tuck laterals back into the fence. I

like that effect and have done the same deliberately further down that bed for Dame des Chenonceau and Lion's Fairy Tale that were gorgeous in spilling over the fence in my previous version of a rose garden. The original Ringo has turned out to do the same in a different bed so beware the low size estimates for that family too.

Enjoy the roses and the bonus opportunity to spread Gratitude in your garden!

Cynthia

Cynthia,

It's nice to have a rose that exceeds its expected, listed dimensions as long as it does so moderately or responds well to restraining it.

It appears that my one and only rose bed is finally beginning to come together, at least it's giving more than it is taking, these 40+ years since it all began. It's quite an education learning how to get a nice bed going. The casual observer hasn't a clue what we rosarians go through to achieve a successful rose garden.

The time involved in trialing new bushes, so many of which turn out to be unsatisfactory, is something that stretches on for years. Of course the challenges of the process is what edges us on. It's a silent experiment only another rosarian understands.

When folks pay me a compliment on my roses I usually quip, "Roses torture me!" They immediately think it's the thorns I'm talking about. When I start to explain what I meant, and in great detail, they head for the hills!

Moses.

I would like to know if it is true what I have been told, that Rose Rosette Virus was released into the wild many years ago to kill the invasive farmland weed, Wild Rosa Multiflora? The story that I was told continues. It did not effectively kill the noxious Wild Rosa Multiflora, but popped up in home gardens, public rose landscape plantings, and commercial rose establishments, as we all well know that it has.

Moses.

Roseseek,

Thank you for your excellent clarification. Greatly appreciated.

I lost a venerable, much beloved Lady Ashe and at the same time, a geriatric, enormous Quietness a few years back to RRV. I think that with growing roses in some parts of the USA, contracting a round of RRV among one's roses is an inevitable rite of initiation.

Moses.

I'd place full faith in Ann's reporting as she's been THE "go to" person on the subject for far too many years to mention. Thank you, Ann.

I'm also all in on Ann's reporting. It's just odd how back when I started growing roses like a fiend in the 90s, and became aware of RRD, you could easily find scientific references of the Iowa State (Ames) involvement. Then they gradually disappeared from searches over the years. I'm a science person, not a conspiracy theorist, but I've often wondered about how that happened.

The A.R.T.S. regions are so weird to me. I’m in the Humid Subtropic (Cfa) region which has testing sites in Texas and Louisiana While the Humid Continental (Dfa) Region has a test site at Swarthmore PA which is only a bit over 2 hours away. It is really hard for me to believe the Cfa region picks are better choices for me than the Dfa region picks.

True Confidence is not on the list for my region, but it certainly looks like a good one.

Markay, it may not have been tested in your region.

I greatly appreciate the effort taken by the A.R.T.S. founders and working rosarians who evaluate the roses, but their conclusions are not gospel canon. I do study their selections carefully, and appreciate the information I glean.

Reminiscent Coral, an A.R.T.S. awarded rose for my district, Dfa, proved to be a bad enough black spotter to get shovel pruned, but the flower is outrageously lovely to me.

Do I bite the bullet and keep it anyway, even if it needs spraying if it doesn't mature out of its first year fungus test failure in my garden? That's yet to be decided.

Moses.

Same here, no significant scent detected from my Pinkerbelle.

BTW,

I think that if Pinkerbelle had been given a more noble? name, like Choicest Friend, or whatever other name that would elicit a more dignified image, the rose would be more popular. Pinkerbelle........the name to me can't get a positive response, but the rose itself, a strong YES!

Moses.

@rosecanadian

I notice that many fragrant roses smell best on first day when opening in warm or hot weather. As it gets cooler in fall I see fragrance lessens and dissappears. . I used to not even smell my roses or just occassionally smell them. I think many roses have fragrances the common gardener does not notice, like me in the past. I think you really need to tune into smelling them and learning when they peak in fragrance to understand that particular rose fragrance.

Pinkerbelle may have a wonderful fragrance in warm weather, just as it starts opening, if caught at the right time.

I realize there is light, moderate & strong fragrances in roses. I am sure Pinkerbelle has some fragrance. I read it was strong & moderate, a Verbena-citrus scent. Love to check it out.

I smell many of my roses sonetimes daily, now, searching for scents. Would be fun to notice and identify different notes in their fragrances.

My interest in rose fragrance has been peaked by you, Carol! Thank you! A whole new world ”to find joy in fragrances has unfolded for me.”

Hopefully, Pinkerbelle will be a lovely fragrance we can enjoy!

Oh, I'm glad I could lead you by your nose. lol :) :) Rose fragrances are truly joyful, as you said. :) Yes, I'm hoping for a great fragrance from Pinkberbelle.

Houzz is a nightmare for some. I'm one of them. My internet system is not compatible with Houzz's. Composing here is daunting. Erased entries, duplicated paragraphs, horrible spell checks, etc., make me cringe.

About your chili thrips....I believe a conventional systemic insecticide sprayed faithfully, like Bio-Advanced Complete Insect Killer, $16.99, 40 oz. on Amazon, at 1 tbl./gal. water, sprayed every 10 days at first for a month and thereafter, every two weeks. Spray the entire bush, concentrating on new growth since the systemic nature of this insecticide does not travel to new, unsprayed (as yet), growth. It is translaminar so both leaf sides need not be sprayed, just the upper surfaces.

Organic and predatory insect remedies often are ineffective.

I'm in your age sphere, too. Keep positive!

Moses.

The organics and predatory insects work in text books. In the real world......let your experience educate you.

Get yourself an alkaline battery powered sprayer.

I have the Scott's, 2 gal. rechargeable @ $79.00. It works very satisfactorily, however some cons should be noted: It's a little heavy just empty, and top heavy (tips over too easily), but I do not carry it while spraying, just moving it by my side on the ground next to me, then I spray away. The spray force is a little weak even when well charged, but adequate.

If I was to replace my Scott's I would look at the Ryobi 1 gal. at $109.00, or Chapin's Autosprayer, 2 gal. at $89.97.

I must spray for: Saw Fly caterpillars, Cabbage Butterfly caterpillars, and after a year's+ respit, the much dreaded Rose Midge Fly maggots have seemingly returned. To control these three, I must spray from April to the end of September.

I wish you a successful victory in your battle against the chili thrip. I do not have this nasty one, but the reports from those who do are horrific.

BTW, I have ~60 rose bushes, counting the Drifts. That's plenty for me.

Moses.

Do more searching for experiences in the state of Florida. They have hot and humid and have had chili thrips for a decade plus.

DON'T limit your search to roses because a lot of other plants are equally susceptible.

There are some small sprayers that are battery powered that might work

Your first job is to make sure you take care of you. Then if you see places where you might fall, change them to safer.

Getting older means you have to do for yourself and make decisions with a what if condicil. There are some slopes on my hillside I just won't walk down because .....age is unavoidable, but has become a work around.

thank you everyome. i do have 3 different battery sprayers. i hope cold weather comes before I must spray then next spring I will be able to prrvent before they teach monumental take over of my roses. i fo have some tiny new growth but it looks a little stunted maybe strange. Mostly I sm trying to drcide how to move forward amd decide if my plants still have chili. If i use my Conserve it will kill the hard work I did with those 4 cans of predators.

i do thank everyone the webdite is not alloeing me to easily chose that option.