hmt4ever

Move the kitchen or move the powder room?

HMT4ever
4 years ago

We are buying a 1956 center entrance colonial that includes a FR, LR, DR, kitchen and powder room on the first floor. We are trying to decide if we should move the existing kitchen to the FR (eliminating the FR) and turn the current kitchen into an office, or if we should move the powder room into the middle of the first floor where the center closet is (because we have a closet by the front door) and keep the kitchen, now opened up, where it is (and thereby keep the family room). The first idea would enable us to have the kitchen open to the LR (that would become our only family living space), and the second would offer us the LR and FR and but the kitchen would be separate (though adequate if we moved the powder room). The powder room is a problem as you can see as it cuts into the kitchen space terribly. The refrigerator and pantry are on the other side of that powder room! Also, currently the door from the FR exits to the garage. If we had the kitchen there, we would build in a small mud room. But not sure it's better to have a LR and FR, or a larger more open and central kitchen. We are an empty nest couple. Thanks!!

ny thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Comments (61)

  • Kristin S
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    You have a lot of options. What spaces do you need for how you live? Do you need an office? A space to host a lot of people for dinner? Both informal and formal eating spaces? A big kitchen or particular kitchen features? There are ways to accomplish a lot of different things (as you see with the various suggestions), but the starting place should be what spaces you actually think you'll use.

    Given that you say you like the traditional style of dining room of the entry, I'd probably eliminate the eat-in area in the kitchen and change the opening between the dining room and kitchen to a 60-72" cased opening or pocket doors. Then you can use that as your eating space and have room to extend the kitchen. I'd probably leave the powder room where it is and consider taking out the closet if you feel the kitchen needs even more space.

    If a mudroom space is important to you, I'd think you could make the current family room an office, library, or den and still have the space to carve out a mudroom, as well.

  • Danette
    4 years ago
    Live there for a while before you decide. See what rooms you use most/least, and what you love/hate about the current setup. Determine the flow of your daily activities. After a year in my latest home, my renovations ended up completely different than how I'd envisioned them when I bought the house.
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  • HMT4ever
    Original Author
    4 years ago
    Thank you everyone! All good comments. I do have some ideas for using the space not mentioned. However, keeping the dining room and family room and working with current kitchen is my personal preference. How do ppl feel about the kitchen being NOT fully open to the FR? I understand the open concept is moving slightly out of favor to separated rooms again? I’m thinking we would still be close by and there’s an opening between kitchen and FR no matter what.
  • Kristin S
    4 years ago

    If it fits how you live I think it's fine not to have the kitchen open to the family room. And in your case it sounds like it's not as if you have young children you need to supervise while you cook. There are many on here who would much prefer a house with a kitchen separate from the family room than one that's tried to shoehorn a modern open plan into a traditional house.

  • Val B
    4 years ago
    Unless the kitchen is completely unusable, I would live there for a little bit first before deciding what to do. My sister has a center hall colonial and her powder room is in the area I circled on red. The door to the powder faces the front of the house. The kitchen is open to the family room, which is nice, but the back wall of the kitchen and the back wall of the family room are even (unlike yours).
  • claire_larece
    4 years ago
    Take away from living room and why not add the powder room at the vestibule across the from the closet?
  • thinkdesignlive
    4 years ago
    Your kitchen will never be able to be open concept with the family room just based on the over all architecture - wether you move the powder room or not. I’d focus on improving the kitchen and opening to the dining room.
  • herbflavor
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    the Main thing I'd concentrate on is turning the powder room into a full bath...ESPECIALLY if you are in advancing years. There is plenty of space here you can adapt, if you need first floor for your occupancy...but lacking a full bath is a huge issue. If you jiggled things in the kitchen and dinette you might gain a patio or French door to back yard area, which can give so much pleasure...this would not entail moving all the rooms around. I don't see the point of all that. With furniture placement..double duty of zones in rooms you can get a quiet area for computer use/etc.. if that is your goal.

  • cpartist
    4 years ago

    Honestly I think you're going about this all wrong.

    How do you actually live. Sit down and make a list of what you do on a daily basis and that will help you determine what to do.

    For example, when I did that with DH, we realized we needed a large entertaining space that opened to the outdoors (we're in FL) but we didn't need a formal dining room since we never entertain formally. We did need a kitchen that would allow both of us to work in it at the same time, or for several people to help out as needed.

    We also realized that we both needed a separate away space (office and studio).

    So what do you need?

    Another thought. You're in a colonial and if you're thinking long term, what happens if one of you can no longer climb stairs. I had to build up because of lot restrictions and our solution was to put an elevator in just in case. What will you do?

    Have you maybe considered if you don't need all that space downstairs turning the family room into a master suite, or adding an elevator somewhere? Or will you move if one of you can no longer climb stairs?

  • threers
    4 years ago

    After moving out of our four bedroom, 2.5 bath colonial, my husband I and live comfortably with a large living room with TV in custom built wall bookcase ( a very wise decision); we opened up dining room to kitchen, allowing plenty of room for cooking, and dining... dining is becoming more casual. We turned one bedroom into the " library''with computer desk. More than enough room for us and to get to my point, consider carefully how you will live in the new house and then make design decisions. Good luck.

  • claire_larece
    4 years ago
    HMT4ever, is this a major structural renovation?
  • HMT4ever
    Original Author
    4 years ago
    Thanks for the continued helpful comments! We are thinking of using the space for ourselves but since we are in the sandwich generation, we will have adult daughters home in occasion and an elderly parent who may stay on occasion (or more, it’s hard to say). We are fine with stairs for hopefully several decades and also have a vacation home to retire to that has a first floor master. I’d prefer this to not be a major renovation but downsizing to the smaller master (shared) bath is a little bit of a shocker to us and if my mom stays in the guest room she will have to share our bath. This is why we’re contemplating the additional bath but we can also share ours with her and we have another full bath in the basement. So many decisions, so many life transitions, so many future unknowns. I know so many of you can relate....
  • HMT4ever
    Original Author
    4 years ago
    Oops I posted on the wrong forum post lol. I also have a question out about our second floor master bath. As for the kitchen, it could be a major project but I’d prefer not. We could use the family room as an office. That’s a great idea and useful for our lifestyles. Do any of you use your formal living rooms anymore? I don’t think we’d be as comfortable with just a LR hence my desire to keep the FR as well for reading and and relaxing.
  • cpartist
    4 years ago

    I hope you're not making your elderly Mom walk stairs?


  • HMT4ever
    Original Author
    4 years ago
    At this point mom is very healthy, active and fit and currently lives in her own home. She would prefer to live independently as long as she can and may never formally live with me. She has no problem with stairs. The women who sold us the house is almost 86 and still had no problem with the stairs and sold the house for other reasons. Age is relative.
  • Kristin S
    4 years ago

    Our house doesn't have a formal living room. That said, we still have two living spaces. Our family room/great room doesn't have a t.v., just furniture arranged to take advantage of a wonderful wood-burning fireplace and huge windows with wooded views. Then we have a separate den space with a t.v. and sectional. In some ways they're the equivalent of a living room/family room, but we focused on making sure the main room is comfortable to use every day for reading, chatting, working on a laptop, etc., instead of being a stuffy living room that never gets used. We also very much prefer not to have our t.v. be the center of things, so it works well for us.

  • felizlady
    4 years ago
    The kitchen needs to be next to the dining room. Even if you never use the formal dining room, the kitchen needs to be where it is if you ever sell. It would take six trips through several spaces to take the Thanksgiving meal to the dining room if you move the kitchen to the family room. Totally inconvenient.
    If you only want one living space and you must have an office, convert the family room into an office. That’s more logical and can easily revert to a family room.
    The powder room is in a good spot because it isn’t opening into the living room nor the kitchen.
  • Bri Bosh
    4 years ago
    What is your budget? I think instead of muddling the top floor you should rework the bottom floor to contain a full bath and master bedroom.
  • claire_larece
    4 years ago
    Do you have pics of your home?
  • thinkdesignlive
    4 years ago

    You would loose a hall closet but gain a mudroom and full bath on this level if you can do something like this (check structural requirements with wall removal, and check new plumbing)


  • HMT4ever
    Original Author
    4 years ago
    Thinkdesignlive What a great idea wow! One issue is that unfortunately the garage entrance is at the other doorway opening through the existing family room so we’d have to go through the back yard to use this mud room. But it’s an awesome concept!
  • remodeling1840
    4 years ago
    I love thinkdesignlive’s ideas. With a little redesign in the family room, it could be used for your mother and other guests while you use your upstairs guest room as the office. You would again have privacy for your bathroom and for your mother, too. As a bonus, if one of you can’t use the stairs because of injury or illness, you have a first floor bedroom. The room you are designating “office” is 13 x 20. Have you analyzed why you need a room that size for an office? So often on Houzz we see the question, “ What else do I need in my office besides this cute desk?” When I ran a business from home, I had file cabinets, desks (3), office supply cabinet, shredder, 4 printers, 3 bookcases, etc. My space was 15 x 26. Now my needs are different and my home office requirements are drastically different. I’m just suggesting you are realistic about the time and space of a home office. Only you two know how you think you will use an office- how many hours a day/week and how much space you actually need.
  • mama goose_gw zn6OH
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    If you could squeeze a shower into the new PR, the formal DR could eventually become a bedroom for someone who can't navigate stairs. (Family room could then be dining.) You said age is relative, but my 83 yr old father could never climb stairs, and at 61, I'm very happy my bedroom (and bathroom) are on the first floor.

    The stair wall could be extended, and another door added, to provide privacy for the bathroom. In the kitchen, the sink can go under the window. I don't know if you gain much space in there, but it's a better layout. If you're planning to use a standard-depth fridge, the cabinets on the sink wall could be pulled out to the depth of the fridge box, to make it look built in.

  • HMT4ever
    Original Author
    4 years ago
    This is a brilliant idea. This could really work esp. including the FR into a MBR idea later on. Omg what a community of creative and generous people on this site. I’m so grateful!
  • thinkdesignlive
    4 years ago
    Ok duly noted about garage door - what if you use the space I designated as ‘mud room’ as a first floor laundry. Then create the mushroom by the garage door (along with a small walk in closet). This way the family room could be easily converted to a first floor master if ever needed.
  • thinkdesignlive
    4 years ago
    I think the biggest issue to check is plumbing stack for toilet. If your plumber can sort through these options discussed you will see what is feasible or not based on budget. Good luck!
  • thinkdesignlive
    4 years ago
    Ha ha! Mud room not mushroom.
  • djtedford
    4 years ago
    Another option is in between fully open and closed off - widening doorways between rooms, so there is both a sense of openness and a sense of demarcation. I believe these are called case openings. We live in an historic home, and want to both respect the home’s history but have a better sense of openness and flow. Cased openings have been a good hybrid solution.
  • lsmatthys
    4 years ago

    Eliminate the doorway to the basement stairs.

  • cpartist
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    At this point mom is very healthy, active and fit and currently lives in her own home. She would prefer to live independently as long as she can and may never formally live with me. She has no problem with stairs. The women who sold us the house is almost 86 and still had no problem with the stairs and sold the house for other reasons. Age is relative.

    Until there is an issue.

    My Mom went to the gym 5x a week, ate healthy, walked on the days she didn't do the gym, never smoked, etc. Then at the age of 72 she developed Parkinson's Disease, something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. She was fine for the first 5 years or so but then some other issues came up and she had to stop exercising for a month. Well once she stopped for the month, her whole body started to go into decline.

    Within a few years even one step would have been like climbing Mt Vesuvius for her. Doing steps became very dangerous for her. My point being, we don't know what the future will bring and while we continue to eat healthy, exercise, etc, all that can change in an instant. Then what are your choices if you haven't even considered those choices?

    Because my mother had considered those choices, she was able to live in her house until the last 6 months of her life enjoying her house and her yard. Much better than her having to move before she was ready just because she hadn't planned for the possibility of one day not being able to do things like steps.

  • cpartist
    4 years ago

    This is a brilliant idea. This could really work esp. including the FR into a MBR idea later on. Omg what a community of creative and generous people on this site. I’m so grateful!

    Yes I really like Mama's idea.

    One other thought is to make that dining room into a bedroom (you can put in a murphy bed for now) and divide the family area into a dining room/family room. You have more than enough space for both in that room.

  • HMT4ever
    Original Author
    4 years ago
    Djteford we will consider that as well. Helpful - thanks!
  • HMT4ever
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Thinkdesignlive I love your mudroom and laundry idea. The door off the family room is the exit that leads to the garage. So we need to add something there and are thinking of making an outdoor narrow breezeway that can double as a mudroom from the way to the garage and family room. Not ideal but serviceable. I have some great ideas thanks to everyone! I posted a facade pic if anyone is interested in offering suggestions about how to improve design elements of the exterior and landscaping. A big warm thanks to everyone.

  • Hooves
    4 years ago

    What about flipping, dining, kitchen, and having a big, dining/kitchen combo?

  • HMT4ever
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    The dining is at the front entrance so you would then see the open kitchen right as you walk in the front foyer.

  • artemis_ma
    4 years ago

    I do like Mama Goose's design. The dining room can remain a dining room until needed, but you'll likely want to frame in a door from the hallway into it. Single door, not a double door.

  • HMT4ever
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Artemis me too! Mama goose’s design is the one I’m going to take to the builder. Thanks for your idea about the dining room! It’s a good one

  • RedRyder
    4 years ago

    The best idea is to wait a while and consider what is most important for your current and future needs. Having an elderly mother to consider - and adult children - is an important part of your renovations. Luckily you have a fantastic first floor which offers a lot of options.
    Here’s my suggestion: Take the left side for “communal living” needs (kitchen, eating,mud room entry, living room) and the right side for quieter needs (office, full bath, another bedroom).
    This would entail a large renovation as you would move the kitchen completely over to the garage/mud room side. You would have room for a laundry set up on either side (next to the new full bath?).
    This would give you an expansive open concept eating,cooking, living area with your fireplace included. The other side would allow your mom to come if needed, or if you need to be downstairs.
    If this appeals to you, you would want to get an architect and designer. And of course the ideas from the wonderful Houzzers you’ve already met.

    This looks like a great house. The rooms are interchangeable and large. Congratulations!

  • HMT4ever
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Hi RedRyder thanks! I like the idea of the FR doubling for an office and potential MBR later. I have a career that would make that FR/office ideal for now. I’m thinking of putting French doors in between the LR and FR and yes using it more as a quiet zone like you said. The idea from others of the full bath is awesome so I will have the flexibility to offer my mom and ourselves sleeping downstairs. I just need to tweak a mudroom idea off the FR now! Thanks!

  • mick50
    4 years ago

    This is a rough sketch, but what about turning the dining into the study/bedroom and adding a full bath on the end. Current family room becomes a mud room and dining area. Open up the kitchen towards the dining. If you remove the landing and door to downstairs, and eliminate the jog on the exterior back door, it opens your kitchen up and gives more space.


  • HMT4ever
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Mick50 this is a terrific plan. I need to decide how open we want the space to be. I do like the mudroom and office up front too. Where is the bath - over by the mudroom?

  • mick50
    4 years ago

    When I get home, I'll label the drawing better. There's a walk-in shower on the far right of the bathroom that's accessed from the bedroom/study. In the mudroom, it's a 2-piece powder room. You could probably eliminate the powder room in the mudroom by making the bathroom by the bedroom/study open to the hall instead of to the bedroom. In my house we walled off part of a room to create a mudroom by the garage entrance. That's a problem with Thinkdesignlive's idea -- the garage entrance would go right into the bedroom/study.

  • HMT4ever
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Omg this is brilliant. I wonder too if instead of the powder bath in the mudroom I could put a stackable washer and dryer instead? I don’t have a first floor laundry presently.

  • mick50
    4 years ago

    This is a little better...still not to scale! Laundry in the mud room is a good idea.


  • RedRyder
    4 years ago

    I like Mick50’s layout. Doesn’t move the kitchen, which is expensive. This one will make you think!

  • HMT4ever
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Yes I totally agree RedRyder! Mick50's layout is awesome and I appreciate her time in labeling everything. II also really liked mama goose's and thinkdesignlive's - I'm going to give everything careful consideration - so many wonderful ideas from such a generous community. I was really hoping to not move the kitchen and all of you posters have given me insight to put in a full bath. This will all be so useful in moving forward! Thank you everyone.

  • mick50
    4 years ago

    Good luck!

  • HMT4ever
    Original Author
    4 years ago
    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><md>I’ll come back in the future and update